Open Letter To This List
JoeJarv@aol.com (JoeJarv@aol.com)
Wed, 5 Nov 1997 13:36:57 -0500 (EST)
<< Subj: Re: Open Letter To This List
Date: 97-11-03 15:03:34 EST
From: JoeJarv
To: higher-fire@prairienet.org
In a message dated 97-11-03 13:11:04 EST, doris.ross@wiso.uni-augsburg.de
wrote:
Harrell01 originally wrote:
>The pastor SHOULD NOT tell his wife ANYTHING that someone tell's him
>in confidence.
Me:
I must wholeheartedly agree. Once any member of a congregation cannot talk
to the pastor without fear that their conversation will be repeated *to
anyone*, the pastor's reputation is tarnished, and his ability to counsel
will become diminished, since people will begin to "hold back", and not tell
him everything he needs to know, in order to effectively counsel and pray.
Or, perhaps, they may quit coming to him entirely, and even warn other
members of the congregation to do the same.
Prov 17:9
... he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.
You:
<I kind of disagree. I feel that often the woman's perspective of the whole
situation is needed. For example...if a woman councils with the
pastor....he might want to discuss this with his wife, cause she sees the
situation from the woman's point of view>>
Me:
It really doesn't matter if you feel that a woman's perspective is needed or
not. That decision is up to the person seeking counsel. If a woman wants the
perspective of the pastor's wife, she should be talking to her in the first
place. The pastor could always offer, "perhaps you would like to speak with
my wife about this", and then comply with the counselee's wishes. In any
case, the pastor should *never repeat* what was told to him, but should offer
the counselee the opportunity to tell the pastor's wife only what she feels
she should know, if anything.
The decision should always be left up to the counselee. Otherwise, what is
to stop the pastor from getting a "teenager's viewpoint" from one of his
children, a "medical perspective" from a nurse or doctor, a "legal
perspective" from a lawyer, etc., and in the process, violating the
confidence that the counselee has placed in him?
Hopefully, the pastor is a trained, or well-read, (and above all, wise)
counsellor. His wife may, or may not be. Even if she is, if the counselee has
not asked for her advice, maybe she doesn't want it.
You:
<....moreover, whenever a woman
coucils with the pastor, it is customary in my church that the pastor is
accompanied by his wife while counceling>
Me:
But, occasions can, and do, arise where a male pastor will counsel a female
member without the need to have his wife present. One instance is during a
phone call, another would be if he was counseling a woman and her husband as
a couple.
You:
<And as far as I see it...the pastor and the pastor's wife are a
team....because....she is often asked church things, she takes care of the
women in the church, comforting them, giving advice, organizing women's
activities and so on...so I would say...she helps her husband in the church
too. >>
Me:
I agree, but they still have their own roles to fulfill. Would we feel that
a lawyer was justified in discussing details we had told him , *in
confidence*, with his wife because she took care of business at the law firm
(perhaps his secretary, or even a partner)? How much more important is it
when we are dealing with issues related with a person's walk with God?
Many times, the confidentiality of what is said is more important than any
counsel that the pastor can give. Confession of guilt, and prayer may be the
most important elements of the counseling session.
Prov 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso *confesseth* and
*forsaketh* them shall have *mercy*.
It would be sad, indeed, to think that a person would feel forced to keep
their sin covered, because of a pastor who didn't respect their right to
privacy.
Pastor (nobody, including my wife, has a clue what people tell me in
confidence) Joe
(An excellent course in Pastoral Counseling is offered by the Distance
Learning Department of Aenon Bible College, through our Bible Institute) >>
---------------------
Forwarded message:
Subj: Re: Open Letter To This List
Date: 97-11-03 15:03:34 EST
From: JoeJarv
To: higher-fire@prairienet.org
In a message dated 97-11-03 13:11:04 EST, doris.ross@wiso.uni-augsburg.de
wrote:
Harrell01 originally wrote:
>The pastor SHOULD NOT tell his wife ANYTHING that someone tell's him
>in confidence.
Me:
I must wholeheartedly agree. Once any member of a congregation cannot talk to
the pastor without fear that their conversation will be repeated *to anyone*,
the pastor's reputation is tarnished, and his ability to counsel will become
diminished, since people will begin to "hold back", and not tell him
everything he needs to know, in order to effectively counsel and pray. Or,
perhaps, they may quit coming to him entirely, and even warn other members of
the congregation to do the same.
Prov 17:9
... he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.
You:
<I kind of disagree. I feel that often the woman's perspective of the whole
situation is needed. For example...if a woman councils with the
pastor....he might want to discuss this with his wife, cause she sees the
situation from the woman's point of view>>
Me:
It really doesn't matter if you feel that a woman's perspective is needed or
not. That decision is up to the person seeking counsel. If a woman wants the
perspective of the pastor's wife, she should be talking to her in the first
place. The pastor could always offer, "perhaps you would like to speak with
my wife about this", and then comply with the counselee's wishes. In any
case, the pastor should *never repeat* what was told to him, but should offer
the counselee the opportunity to tell the pastor's wife only what she feels
she should know, if anything.
The decision should always be left up to the counselee. Otherwise, what is to
stop the pastor from getting a "teenager's viewpoint" from one of his
children, a "medical perspective" from a nurse or doctor, a "legal
perspective" from a lawyer, etc., and in the process, violating the
confidence that the counselee has placed in him?
Hopefully, the pastor is a trained, or well-read, (and above all, wise)
counsellor. His wife may, or may not be. Even if she is, if the counselee has
not asked for her advice, maybe she doesn't want it.
You:
<....moreover, whenever a woman
coucils with the pastor, it is customary in my church that the pastor is
accompanied by his wife while counceling>
Me:
But, occasions can, and do, arise where a male pastor will counsel a female
member without the need to have his wife present. One instance is during a
phone call, another would be if he was counseling a woman and her husband as
a couple.
You:
<And as far as I see it...the pastor and the pastor's wife are a
team....because....she is often asked church things, she takes care of the
women in the church, comforting them, giving advice, organizing women's
activities and so on...so I would say...she helps her husband in the church
too. >>
Me:
I agree, but they still have their own roles to fulfill. Would we feel that a
lawyer was justified in discussing details we had told him , *in confidence*,
with his wife because she took care of business at the law firm (perhaps his
secretary, or even a partner)? How much more important is it when we are
dealing with issues related with a person's walk with God?
Many times, the confidentiality of what is said is more important than any
counsel that the pastor can give. Confession of guilt, and prayer may be the
most important elements of the counseling session.
Prov 28:13
He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso *confesseth* and
*forsaketh* them shall have *mercy*.
It would be sad, indeed, to think that a person would feel forced to keep
their sin covered, because of a pastor who didn't respect their right to
privacy.
Pastor (nobody, including my wife, has a clue what people tell me in
confidence) Joe
(An excellent course in Pastoral Counseling is offered by the Distance
Learning Department of Aenon Bible College, through our Bible Institute)