Jesus: was Melchezidek ;-)
"Timothy Litteral" (brotim@gte.net)
Wed, 12 Nov 1997 20:05:14 -0500
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The only response to some of the things said about who and what Jesus =
is/was is to pray. I am appalled at the strange ideas floating around =
passing for sound Oneness doctrine these days! How could Jesus be the =
Image of the invisible God that He created?!! Come on. One would of =
course assume that Paul was refering to all things that WERE created in =
Colossians and could not have been refering to that One that WAS NOT =
created. Jesus, the man, was a part of creation. He had a physical =
mother and a physical Father. His physical Father was the Holy =
Ghost/Manifest presence of God and His mother was Mary. Jesus was born, =
Jesus died (though He NOW has eternal life). Jesus had a beginning. =
Jesus was/is SUBJECT to the Father. Jesus refered to the Invisible God =
as ***HIS*** God. Jesus was a man: A MAN. None of this applies to God.
Yet... Jesus refered to Himself as God. Jesus told the Pharisees that =
***HE*** had spoken to Abraham FACE TO FACE <not that Abraham still was =
(though this is true) but that ***I AM***, which was the name of God =
given to the Moses for the Jews as a token so they would KNOW it was Him =
(the One who spoke to Abraham) speaking >. How can these things be?
Simple. A man is spirit in flesh. No 'three in one' garbage of mind, =
body and soul but spirit in flesh to MAKE ***a*** (ONE) soul:
Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into =
his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Dust + spirit =3D man. Hmmm....
When God 'breathed' into the dust it BECAME a soul. Now, in the Greek, =
they split this down into four parts (don't know where anyone gets =
three) that are in error. You have the life force which is the spirit. =
You have the body which is, well the body and the mind. These 'three' =
interact to produce the 'soul' which is the emotions. This is a bit =
deceptive since we know that the mind contains the emotions but it is =
'useful' to separte logic from feelings sometimes. ;-) What we have =
left is the Spirit of God animating dust and ALLOWING this *combination* =
to have a choice or will of its own. Adam was such a creature, Jesus =
was not. Jesus is said to be God (first and foremost) MANIFESTED in the =
flesh. Jesus is a man because He is a Spirit (the Spirit) combined with =
dust to make a 'soul.' Adam was allowed to have thoughts other than the =
thoughts God had which is why he fell, Jesus had no thoughts but those =
given Him by the Spirit, as an EXPRESSION of the thoughts and intentions =
of the Spirit (God):
John 5:19
Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, =
The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for =
what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
Son can do nothing of Himself...
God gave Adam His 'life force' and freedom to choose while Jesus is an =
'Expression' of HIMSELF. Both men, but DIFFERENT creatures! It's the =
same with us. ;-) I am a man but I am not even LIKE Jesus yet:
1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we =
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; =
for we shall see him as he is.
See Him as He is: God manifested in the flesh!
Who was Jesus? Consider:
Hebrews 1
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto =
the fathers by the prophets,=20
Different times and manners (Mel ;-). =20
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath =
appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;=20
Remember, this is still refering to God here, who spoke to us 'by' his =
Son:
By: a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, time
or state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially or
constructively), i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between
1519 and 1537); AV - in 1902, by 163, with 140, among 117, at 113, on =
62,
through 39, misc 264; 2800
1) in, by, with etc.=20
http://www.khouse.org/cgi-bin.blb/strongs.pl?book=3DHbr&chapter=3D1&verse=
=3D2&strongs=3D1722
Translation: God who spoke to the prophets in many ways and forms, spoke =
to us IN His Son. When you asked Jesus anything, God answered. No =
'dualism', never two natures, just God IN flesh! Did the flesh get =
tired? Yes, but it was God who FELT this weariness. Shocked! Why? =
Doesn't He say He feels OURS now? Who feels our pain? Who knows what =
it is like to be tired? Discouraged? Betrayed? God my friends: GOD! =
Jesus is a way for God to EXPRESS that He knows how WE feel, a way of =
saying "Though *I* never tire, *I* know how *you* feel when *you* are =
tired." =20
Where anyone gets this nonsense that God had to "find out" ANYTHING is =
way beyond me. Jesus is an Expression of God's compassion and =
tenderness, not God's PATH to these things.
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his =
person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had =
by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on =
high:=20
Further translation: Who (His Son), being like dust covering His =
PERSON...
Express image: AV - express image 1; 1
1) the instrument used for engraving or carving
2) the mark stamped upon that instrument or wrought out on it
2a) a mark or figure burned in (Lev. 13:28) or stamped on, an impression
2b) the exact expression (the image) of any person or thing, marked
likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e facsimile
http://www.khouse.org/cgi-bin.blb/strongs.pl?book=3DHbr&chapter=3D1&verse=
=3D3&strongs=3D5481
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance =
obtained a more excellent name than they.=20
One God/Father/Creator/Spirit manifested in flesh/Son/creation/dust =
BECOMING man/anointed/Christ/Messiah. This IS Jesus Christ/HawYah-shua =
haMoshiak/I AM Salvation Poured Out! =20
Indeed, a MORE EXCELLENT name than that of the angels!
Timothy (this is the God *I* serve) Litteral
brotim@gte.net Luke 6:26
I have chat by appointment only
http://members.tripod.com/~trlitteral/
=20
=20
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.1712.3"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>The only response to some of the things said =
about who=20
and what Jesus is/was is to pray. I am appalled at the strange =
ideas=20
floating around passing for sound Oneness doctrine these days! How =
could=20
Jesus be the Image of the invisible God that He created?!! Come =
on. =20
One would of course assume that Paul was refering to all things that =
WERE=20
created in Colossians and could not have been refering to that One that =
WAS NOT=20
created. Jesus, the man, was a part of creation. He had a =
physical=20
mother and a physical Father. His physical Father was the Holy=20
Ghost/Manifest presence of God and His mother was Mary. Jesus was =
born,=20
Jesus died (though He NOW has eternal life). Jesus had a =
beginning. =20
Jesus was/is SUBJECT to the Father. Jesus refered to the Invisible =
God as=20
***HIS*** God. Jesus was a man: A MAN. None of this applies =
to=20
God.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Yet... Jesus refered to Himself as =
God. =20
Jesus told the Pharisees that ***HE*** had spoken to Abraham FACE TO =
FACE=20
<not that Abraham still was (though this is true) but that ***I =
AM***, which=20
was the name of God given to the Moses for the Jews as a token so they =
would=20
KNOW it was Him (the One who spoke to Abraham) speaking >. How =
can=20
these things be?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>Simple. A man is spirit in flesh. =
No 'three=20
in one' garbage of mind, body and soul but spirit in flesh to MAKE =
***a*** (ONE)=20
soul:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>
<P><STRONG><A=20
href=3D"/cgi-bin/bible?language=3DEnglish&version=3DKJV&passage=3DGenesis=
+2:7&matchno=3D0">Genesis=20
2:7</A></STRONG><BR><STRONG><!-- [genesis][2][7] [][][] --><!-- =
[genesis][2][7] [genesis][2][7] -->And=20
the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his =
nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.</STRONG></P>
<P>Dust + spirit =3D man. Hmmm....</P>
<P>When God 'breathed' into the dust it BECAME a soul. Now, in the =
Greek,=20
they split this down into four parts (don't know where anyone gets =
three) that=20
are in error. You have the life force which is the spirit. =
You have=20
the body which is, well the body and the mind. These 'three' =
interact to=20
produce the 'soul' which is the emotions. This is a bit deceptive =
since we=20
know that the mind contains the emotions but it is 'useful' to separte =
logic=20
from feelings sometimes. ;-) What we have left is the Spirit of =
God=20
animating dust and ALLOWING this *combination* to have a choice or will =
of its=20
own. Adam was such a creature, Jesus was not. Jesus is said =
to be=20
God (first and foremost) MANIFESTED in the flesh. Jesus is a man =
because=20
He is a Spirit (the Spirit) combined with dust to make a 'soul.' =
Adam was=20
allowed to have thoughts other than the thoughts God had which is why he =
fell,=20
Jesus had no thoughts but those given Him by the Spirit, as an =
EXPRESSION of the=20
thoughts and intentions of the Spirit (God):</P>
<P><STRONG><A=20
href=3D"/cgi-bin/bible?language=3DEnglish&version=3DKJV&passage=3DJohn+5:=
19&matchno=3D18&restrict=3DMatt-Rev">John=20
5:19</A></STRONG><BR><STRONG><!-- [john][5][19] [][][] --><!-- =
[john][5][19] [john][5][19] -->Then=20
answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The =
Son can=20
do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things =
soever=20
he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.</STRONG></P>
<P>Son can do nothing of Himself... </P>
<P>God gave Adam His 'life force' and freedom to choose while Jesus is =
an=20
'Expression' of HIMSELF. Both men, but DIFFERENT creatures! =
It's the=20
same with us. ;-) I am a man but I am not even LIKE Jesus =
yet: </P>
<P><STRONG><A=20
href=3D"/cgi-bin/bible?language=3DEnglish&version=3DKJV&passage=3D1+John+=
3:2&matchno=3D18&restrict=3DMatt-Rev">1=20
John 3:2</A></STRONG><BR><STRONG><!-- [1-john][3][2] [][][] --><!-- =
[1-john][3][2] [1-john][3][2] -->Beloved,=20
now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: =
but we=20
know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see =
him as=20
he is.</STRONG></P>
<P>See Him as He is: God manifested in the flesh!</P>
<P>Who was Jesus? Consider:</P>
<DT><STRONG>Hebrews 1</STRONG>
<DT><STRONG>1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in =
time past=20
unto the fathers by the prophets, </STRONG></DT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Different times and manners (Mel ;-). </DIV>
<DIV>
<DT>
<DT><STRONG>2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he =
hath=20
appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;=20
</STRONG></DT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Remember, this is still refering to God here, who spoke to us 'by' =
his=20
Son:</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>By: a primary preposition denoting (fixed) position (in place, =
time<BR>or=20
state), and (by implication) instrumentality (medially =
or<BR>constructively),=20
i.e. a relation of rest (intermediate between<BR>1519 and 1537); AV - in =
1902,=20
by 163, with 140, among 117, at 113, on 62,<BR>through 39, misc 264;=20
2800<BR><BR>1) in, by, with etc. </DIV>
<DIV><A=20
href=3D"
ww.khouse.org/cgi-bin.blb/strongs.pl?book=3DHbr</A>&chapter=3D1&v=
erse=3D2&strongs=3D1722</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Translation: God who spoke to the prophets in many ways and forms, =
spoke to=20
us IN His Son. When you asked Jesus anything, God answered. =
No=20
'dualism', never two natures, just God IN flesh! Did the flesh get =
tired? Yes, but it was God who FELT this weariness. =
Shocked! =20
Why? Doesn't He say He feels OURS now? Who feels our =
pain? Who=20
knows what it is like to be tired? Discouraged? =
Betrayed? God=20
my friends: GOD! Jesus is a way for God to EXPRESS that He knows =
how WE=20
feel, a way of saying "Though *I* never tire, *I* know how *you* =
feel when=20
*you* are tired." </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Where anyone gets this nonsense that God had to "find =
out"=20
ANYTHING is way beyond me. Jesus is an Expression of God's =
compassion and=20
tenderness, not God's PATH to these things.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DT><STRONG>3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express =
image of=20
his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he =
had by=20
himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on =
high:=20
</STRONG></DT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Further translation: Who (His Son), being like dust covering His=20
PERSON...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Express image: AV - express image 1; 1<BR><BR>1) the instrument =
used for=20
engraving or carving<BR>2) the mark stamped upon that instrument or =
wrought out=20
on it<BR>2a) a mark or figure burned in (Lev. 13:28) or stamped on, an=20
impression<BR>2b) the exact expression (the image) of any person or =
thing,=20
marked<BR>likeness, precise reproduction in every respect, i.e=20
facsimile </DIV>
<DIV>
<DT><U><FONT color=3D#0000ff><A=20
href=3D"
ww.khouse.org/cgi-bin.blb/strongs.pl?book=3DHbr</A>&chapter=3D1&v=
erse=3D3&strongs=3D5481</FONT></U></DT></DIV>
<DIV><U><FONT color=3D#0000ff></FONT></U> </DIV>
<DIV>
<DT><STRONG>4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by=20
inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. =
</STRONG></DT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>One God/Father/Creator/Spirit manifested in flesh/Son/creation/dust =
BECOMING man/anointed/Christ/Messiah. This IS Jesus =
Christ/HawYah-shua=20
haMoshiak/I AM Salvation Poured Out! </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Indeed, a MORE EXCELLENT name than that of the angels!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Timothy (this is the God *I* serve) Litteral<BR><A=20
href=3D"mailto:brotim@gte.net">brotim@gte.net</A> Luke 6:26<BR>I have =
chat by=20
appointment only<BR><A=20
href=3D"
/~trlitteral/</A></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>
<P> </P> </DIV></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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