Women in the Bible

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  REGARDING           Re: Women in the Bible




>|The entire idea of women in the pulpit 
>|didn't form out from a vacuum.  It came
>|out of the modern world (because it doesn't 
>|appear to come from the word)...

Hmm, this might sound a little presumptuous, but I didn't mean it to be mean,
but just like I wrote it.  I don't see the precedence for women in the pulpit
coming from the bible.  

>In the UPC, one of the missionaries is a single, 
>never been married, woman, Sis. Kim.  She is a 
>missionary to Korea, and at the time of her call 
>of the Lord, there was no man available to do the 
>job.  She was born and raised in Korea, knew the 
>language, her family had respect, in short, she 
>was perfect for the job.  

Except that she isn't a male.  The problem with using these cases is that they
don't refute the principle as put down in the word.  We can use other
examples, but that doesn't change what the Bible has put down as the order for
God's church.  I don't put down Sis. Kim's faith and righteous living.  She
could probably preach me right down on my knees, but ability isn't the
yardstick, nor the apparent results.  The quest is for God's blessing, and His
righteousness.  In I Sam. 13, Saul was waiting for Samuel to come and bless
him before the battle with the Philistines.  Samuel, under the anointing of
God, had told Saul to wait for him.  The Philistines had 30k chariots, 6k
horsemen, and innumerable footmen.  The people were distressed and starting to
lose their collective nerve.  Saul, in his haste, offered the blessing and
proceeded to smite the Philistines.  God knew Saul would win, and do well, but
He was checking Saul's obedience.  After that, he was cursed by Samuel and
things were never the same for him.  Paul, under the anointing of God, has
told us what the order for the church is.  What right do we have to change
that?  Nadab and Abihu were slain by God for offering strange fire before him.
 They offered what they thought was righteous, not what God thought was
righteous.  God has His way and we have ours.  I'd rather have His.

Another problem with using specific cases, is that it leads to a great many
"what if's."  For instance, what if Sis. Kim had prayed for a godly man to
lead?  Isn't a shared burden a burden cut in half?  If her father WAS a great
Buddhist diviner, what kind of great Ap/Pent. preacher would he have made?  I
don't really want to do any more second-guessing of Sis. Kim because 1) I
don't know all the circumstances, 2) it can come across mean and insulting to
her intentions, zeal, and love of God.  The order for the church put forth in
Timothy and Titus, and the line of authority made explicit in 1 Cor. 11
amongst others isn't abolished by examples outside of that order, regardless
of how effective we they appear to be.

>She will not go to evangelize at a church unless 
>the pastor is married. She used to lead Bible Study 
>for her family and first converts in her parent's home, 
>but now, she concentrates on organizing (with a 
>committee) 

Doesn't it strike you as odd that she operated without a head all this time,
but now she has these convictions and rules.  Would the rules (or dreaded word
"law" here in the age of grace! :-) ) have even been necessary had the
original principle been followed of a man leading the spiritual battle?  

>the first Apostolic Bible College in Korea!  Praise 
>the Lord!

Amen.  Praise God!

>I will not believe that Jesus did not approve of Sis. 
>Kim's call or her ministry simply because she was a woman.  

It isn't that Sis. Kim is JUST a woman.  God has a plan, and we don't always
see it.  We shouldn't let that stop us from fulfilling that plan as best as we
can.  Obedience to the word is the key.  I'm not perfect at it and I'm not
trying to set myself up as perfect, but I'm trying to do my best the same as
all of us.

>There are too many miracles (others that didn't make it 
>into this post) that prove otherwise.  

Miracles don't always prove what we think they prove.  The word needs to
confirm itself, and not works.  Don't forget that Simon the magician in the
book of Acts could do marvelous things.  I'm not calling Sis. Kim a magician. 
I'm only saying that the word must confirm the work, not the other way around.
 After all, Saul won the battle, so in human eyes, what more proof would be
needed after that?

>I firmly believe that if there is not a qualified 
>man to do the Job, God will find a woman!  

Perhaps so, but when that occured in Judges 4 and Deborah led, she said
herself that that was a reproach to the nation of Israel.  So it is true that
God may find a woman to do the job, but is that what He wanted?  What is
penalty for men failing to heed the word of the Lord?  This is something we
need to be cognizant of in these last days.  Men need to stand up and take
responsibility, or they will be judged, and judged harshly.

>Just look at the resurrection, Jesus met 
>the woman [Mary Magdalene] first and she 
>was the first one to deliver the message of
>the risen Lord (John 20:15-18)! 

Does that make her an evangelist, a bishop, a preacher, a teacher, an elder,
or does this make her a WITNESS?  We're all called to be witnesses, regardless
of gender.  It's a stretch to say that Mary's witness sanctions usurping
authority over men, especially when that is specifically prohibited in 1 Tim
2.

Something that might help with this issue of differentiating between witnesses
and evangelizing is this.  Every now and then, a tabloid paper (or even a
mainstream one, gulp!) has a story on some 7 or 10 year old who is preaching,
evangelizing, or healing, or something like that.  I have always found that
unsettling.  In fact, there is no biblical precedence for it, either.  That
child is still under the authority of his parents.  I saw TBN once and the
Crouches' son (couldn't have been more than 9!) was laying hands on people and
"slaying them in the spirit."  Arggh....  He looked like he was pushing over
garden gnomes at Mr. Wilson's house....

Children can witness about the goodness of God in their lives, but that isn't
an endorsement by God for them to preach or evangelize.  

<disclaimer: I'm not setting a grown woman at the same level as that of a
child.  Please don't read the above as such.  Thanks!>  :-)

>The order set up for the household is different than 
>that for the church. 

I disagree.  I don't find that anywhere in the word.  If you are referring to
1 Cor. 11, that isn't implied or stated in there at all.  Further, how can it
be said that there is a difference between what's done in the house and what's
done in the church, and yet people who are four square for having women
preachers are almost universally agreed that it should be done under the
authority of a man?  Isn't that a contradiction? 

>If you take a hard look at the setup in 
>Acts, there WERE NO churches, and consequently, 
>no such thing as a pastor (bishops and elders 
>held different offices).  EVERYONE ministered.  
>They went from house to house sharing the word.  

Witnessing?  Sharing the word?  Sure.  I can see that.  Does that mean the
women preached OVER a congregation in the houses, though?  It doesn't say, and
I don't see a reason why we should presume they did.  As I've said before, I
don't see any precedence in the bible for women to be saved and then
immediately having their mouths sewn shut.  The issue is the line of authority
in the work of God.  

>In Acts 1:8, Jesus said "But ye shall receive 
>power, after that the Holy Ghost is come 
>upon you:..." to do what??? " and ye shall 
>be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and 
>in Judea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost
>part of the earth."

Witnesses.  I'll buy that.  :-)

>If only men were to be the evangelists/ministry, 
>only men would have received the Holy Ghost.  

That's not so.  We all need the Holy Ghost to go to heaven.

>But the fact is, "These all continued with one
>accord in prayer and supplication, *with* the women, 
>and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren" (Acts 1:14)."

Let's continue on a little....
"Ac 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and
said..."  Who stood up?  A man preached.  That was the order then, and I can't
see how that has changed.

God bless you,
Bro. Steven