Women in the Bible
Tyler Nally (tnally@iquest.net)
Thu, 20 Nov 1997 08:25:24 -0500
At 11:03 AM 11/19/97 -0800, Bro Brad Young wrote:
>The role of women in the ministry, IMO, should be increasing. Doesn't
>a man that's been ordained and has had hands laid on him for blessings
>and guidance, also have his spouse laid hands on as well to further enhance
>his ministry?
>
>[Brad Young]
>Are you then saying that "things are different now," we can ignore that
part of the bible?
Nope....
>(This part:
>
>1 pet 3:5
In context, it's:
1Pe 3:1 Likewise, ye wives, [be] in subjection to your own husbands;
that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the
word be won by the conversation of the wives;
2 While they behold your chaste conversation [coupled] with fear.
3 Whose adorning let it not be that outward [adorning] of plaiting
the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel;
4 But [let it be] the hidden man of the heart, in that which is
not corruptible, [even the ornament] of a meek and quiet spirit,
which is in the sight of God of great price.
5 For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who
trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto
their own husbands:
>eph 5:24
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the
head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so [let] the
wives [be] to their own husbands in every thing.
All Good stuff.... *wives* in submission to their husbands.
Let me point out that *submission* can be thought of a little differently
in terms of a misison. Like the husband's *mission* in life is to _fill_in_
_the_blank_ and his spouse's part in it is *the _sub-mission_* of her
husbands. A mission within a mission.
Even with that said, the standard for the home and church are completely
different. In the bible where it says *women are to keep silence* that's
referring to the custom when the church congregation would split up into
male and female halves (like the Shakers of American history) and the females
not understanding what the preacher was saying, would yell across the aisle
to the male half at their husband and ask what it all means "Hey, sugar-
pumpkin! What did Bro Smith mean by that? Blah, blah, blah, blah...
Yakitty, yakitty, yakitty,..... " quite a disturbance. Paul essentially
said, "Let them that are *noisy* keep their silence and when they get home,
the head-of-household-male-type (who was silent) will instruct thee."
>How can the man be the head of the woman when the woman is the spiritual
>leader of the man? That is *confusing*.
I don't think so. Her *job* would be to *deliver* the word to him.
On judgement day, *she* (as a minister) will be responsible for delivering
and giving to him the things as the Holy Ghost moves on her. If she's
moved on to deal with his abuses, she should do so. If she doesn't, she'll
be accountable to God for what she didn't do as God moved on her. If he
receives the advice and doesn't heed, then his blood is on his own hands and
she's off-the-hook.
Let's say a member of a local church is caught up in fornication or adultery.
Fornication - the illicit sex act between two persons not-married to each oth.
Adultery - the *impure state* of a marraige union after fornication.
If the pastor *knows* of the situation and doesn't confront the (non)saint
to get them to change their behavior and maybe show them in the word what
it says in relation to the subject. If the pastor doesn't condemn the act,
then the pastor is *condoning* the very thing that's staining the church body
of which he's the head. Light can't fellowship with darkness. Then the
pastor is just as *guilty* for covering up the sin and letting it go on. He
becomes *chargable* for that fornication/adultery. But if the pastor does
confront him/her and demands that this situation stop and that repentence is
needed and apologies, etc. Have the intestinal fortitude that, if the un-
repentant continues in this sin, to remove the unrepentant from church
activities and leadership (and if it continues to go on - expulsion), then
the pastor has *done* everything in their power to clear up and fix the
situation of this *blot* upon the local body. He can answer God in a clear
conscience of what he's done in the accountability arena for this situation.
But if there's no confrontation, no action, then the adultery/fornication is
to the pastor's charge if it's during his watch.
I think the *mission* of a pastor/minister is completely different than
the *sub-mission* of a spouse.
>Face facts.... there are people that *women* can reach with the apostolic
>pentecostal oneness message that *men* will never ever ever ever reach.
>[Brad Young]
>Sure. Let her teach a bible study.
Yeah... she can do that as well. To me, it's a greater injustice to keep
women from the ministry when it takes a *man* and a *woman* to become a
balanced set. I'd imagine anybody that *never* hears a oneness pentecostal
message delivered by a female has quite a biased view.
>Whether it's their softness, their delivery, their personality, or
whatever...
>it's absolutely necessary that women be ministers in the church. If that
>female is a minister and is married, that doesn't usurp the authority she
>has over her husband (be he a minister or not). He still might be *head*
>over her, but she might be accountable for his salvation if she is his
>pastor/minister (which I've heard of such a case just like that here in
>Indy this last weekend).
>[Brad Young]
>He's her head, but she is accountable for his salvation. That doesn't
grok. >God is not the author of confusion...
She's not accountable for his *salvation*. She's accountable for what
she did with the word and how, and when, and if she ministered it. A
pastor/minister isn't accountable for the numbers of persons being saved
during their watch. They are accountable for what they did with the word.
A pastor/minister can't make someone's mind up for them. He/she delivers
the word, and if they refuse to change, that's their business and not the
pastor/minister's.
Think of the role of a pastor/minister as a shepherd. What does he do?
He provides *safety* to the flock of sheep. If he can keep the wolves
away, keep the herd in the same general area (for the safety of the sheep
because it's easier to guard them when they're all in near proximity to
each other), keep them fed, provide the proper grounds where the sheep
can reproduce, and *chase* after sheep that stray, he's done well. Sheep
however, aren't anywhere near as complex as humans. They don't *mindfully*
wander off like humans do. They don't mindfully put themselves in the path
of the wolf. However, people do. People go astray. The nature of man is
always trying to get himself/herself into trouble. If trouble is approaching
the saint, and the pastor/minsiter calls out to the saint to *come back* to
the flock and they don't do it, it's no longer the pastor/minister's
responsibility.
>Also..... where did the term *layman* come about? Wasn't it the Roman
>Catholic church (or some kind of organized religion) that elevated the
>platform, raised the pulpit, put them up higher to look *down* on the
>congregation? The annointed/exhaulted ones remain on the platform, while
>the laymen remained in their seats. Doesn't scripture say *We are a
>peculiar people, a royal priesthood." It doesn't say "We are a peculiar
>people, Men are a royal priesthood and women are lessor."
>[Brad Young]
>The office of priest is not the primary duty of a pastor or evangelist or
>teacher (the behind the pulpit kind). Everyone is a priest, because the job
>of a priest is to offer the sacrifice (and that makes it all of our jobs).
>The preacher is to deliver the Word of God. Are all the sheep shepherds? I
>think not. Are all the trees husbandmen? I think not.
Eh? While sheep are being sheep, they also reproduce their own family.
When that happens, the sheep take on a role of leadership/ministry for
those they've brought in and help with others.
Think of it this way ... the pastor/minister is a message deliverer,
like a postal carrier. I don't think a single person out there minds
if the postal carrier is female or male. They *deliver* the messages
put into the postal system. The role of a minister isn't hardly any
different. They deliver the message. If they *fail* to deliver the
message, then they don't deserve the office of minister/pastor. The
pastor/minister doesn't *create* the message, God does (in some cases,
that's not true - there's some wild non-biblical stuff I've heard of
preached). The pastor/minister's job is to make sure the message is
delivered as thus saith God. God isnt' a respector of persons. Gender
doesn't make a difference in God's mind.
In practicality, it's our different biases that determines the
effectiveness of any specific preacher be they male or female.
Maybe it's our ego's that won't allow a female to minister to us.
If a saint is *humble*, they should be happy that God has found a
minister for them, period! Ask Sis. Doris over there in Germany.
Had God brought a female pastor to her assembly, I think she would
have been received with open arms (understanding the troubles they've
had in getting a oneness apostolic pastor over there).
I think, to keep *women* from the ministry ... in a great way to be
*non-moderate* in a body of believers that's supposed to be moderate
in all things. To make it a boy-only club, is a good way to keep the
body ministerial needs unbalanced and even unchecked.
Bro Tyler
--
Bro Tyler Nally <tnally@iquest.net> <tgnally@prairienet.org>
ICQ: http://www.mirabilis.com/3658585
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