Women's lib???

"Bradley E. Young" (byoung@spry.com)
Wed, 26 Nov 1997 10:24:31 -0800
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-----Original Message-----
From:	caryle clear [SMTP:cpcj@sprynet.com]
Sent:	Wednesday, November 26, 1997 9:41 AM
To:	Higher-fire
Subject:	Women's lib???

<snip>
All I'm pointing
out is that the Bible does not forbid women in the ministry.  It simply
does not.

 I hope that I never said that women are absolutely forbidden from 
preaching/treaching.  If I did, my apologies.

I have said that God can and use women-but that there is order involved in 
it.  I don't find God ever choosing a woman over a man (when there is a man 
willing and able), that's all.

> Anneliese<
And there are too many cases of powerful things happening under
female leadership in the church today to change my mind on this.  If God
didn't approve, he'd surely let us know (as he does any other time in the
Bible when people did wrong).


Additionally, ***it is extremely dangerous*** to base what is right, wrong 
or acceptable on whether blessings are poured out.  Moses *sinned* in 
smiting the rock the second time, but the blessing was still poured out! 
 Why?  Because the people had a need.

Blessings don't mean that you are in the will of God;  they mean that God 
is meeting needs.  Moses sinned and the blessing was still poured out (it 
bore repeating).

As for the verse on "subjection" it actually reads "...*learn in* silence
with all subjection", not "be" in silence (I never said *you* said that,
just making a point).

I'm glad that we agree on this point.  I'd argue that this "learning" is in 
a preaching environment.  You and I may disagree on this point; I say that 
applying this to all forms of learning isn't what the bible is referring to 
(and that if you try to apply it to all forms of learning, it rapidly 
explodes ad absurdium).

So, if the situation has a woman in a position of
learning (as opposed to teaching) she should be silent and not ask too many
questions to disrupt the lesson.

Agreed.

You have to remember that this is the
first generation of women to be permitted to learn the scripture.  When you
first heard the word, didn't you have a lot of questions?

I still have plenty of questions.  I'd consider myself backslidden if I 
didn't

Didn't you ask a
lot of questions, sometimes in the middle of a discussion?

Yes.

Even if you
didn't many people (men included, today) do.

Sure.

Men at this time were already
accustomed to learning in silence, which is why there was no need to
include men in this verse.

Here we'll just have to agree to part ways.  By your argument, the women 
should have had no problem with silence-they would have been conditioned to 
not say anything.  Also, the "men learning in silence" societal 
conditioning falls apart because they were all newcomers to the truth.

Since the men and the women are *both* conditioned for silence, why is the 
verse specifically targeted at women?

If the men would have a natural propensity to ask questions(because they 
are new to this truth), why then is the verse aimed at the other gender?

I'm not trying to be misogynistic here, I just can't understand why the 
bible would say it that way if it wasn't important.

Brad

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